// // // // // // //
Welcome, Guest
Username: Password: Remember me
To create a new topic, please log in or click here to register for free.

TOPIC: Court Rules Police Can Force Users to Unlock iPhones With Fingerprints, But Not Passcodes

Court Rules Police Can Force Users to Unlock iPhones With Fingerprints, But Not Passcodes 4 years 2 weeks ago #332


  • Posts:45 Thank you received: 8
  • Scott - 3's Avatar
  • Scott - 3
  • Trustee Network
  • OFFLINE
  • Karma: 8
Unbelievable...

So apparently the Police can physically grab your arm, pin you down and force your finger onto a device in order to unlock it.

How do I get out this %#%&@!* outfit?



_________________________________________________________________
Court Rules Police Can Force Users to Unlock iPhones With Fingerprints, But Not Passcodes


Friday October 31, 2014 12:25 pm PDT by Juli Clover
http://www.macrumors.com/2014/10/31/fingerprints-not-protected-by-fifth-amendment/


Circuit Court judge in Virginia has ruled that fingerprints are not protected by the Fifth Amendment, a decision that has clear privacy implications for fingerprint-protected devices like newer iPhones and iPads.

According to Judge Steven C. Fucci, while a criminal defendant can't be compelled to hand over a passcode to police officers for the purpose of unlocking a cellular device, law enforcement officials can compel a defendant to give up a fingerprint.

The Fifth Amendment states that "no person shall be compelled in any criminal case to be a witness against himself," which protects memorized information like passwords and passcodes, but it does not extend to fingerprints in the eyes of the law, as speculated by Wired last year.

Judge Steven C. Frucci ruled this week that giving police a fingerprint is akin to providing a DNA or handwriting sample or an actual key, which the law permits. A pass code, though, requires the defendant to divulge knowledge, which the law protects against, according to Frucci's written opinion.

The ruling stemmed from a case involving David Baust, who was accused of strangling his girlfriend. Prosecutors believed Baust may have stored video of the attack on his phone, and requested that the judge force him to unlock it. If protected by a passcode, Baust will not be required to unlock his phone under the Fifth Amendment, but if protected with a fingerprint, he could potentially be forced to unlock the device.

If Baust's phone is an iPhone that's equipped with Touch ID, it's very likely that it will be passcode locked at this point and thus protected by law. Touch ID requires a passcode after 48 hours of disuse, a restart, or three failed fingerprint entry attempts, and the device has probably been in police custody for quite some time. It is unclear if the judge's ruling will have an impact on future cases involving cellular devices protected with fingerprint sensors, as it could be overturned by an appeal or a higher court.
_________________________________________________________________





"Judge Steven C. Frucci ruled this week that giving police a fingerprint is akin to providing a DNA or handwriting sample or an actual key, which the law permits."


I thought you could refuse to be fingerprinted, refuse to have your mugshot photo taken, and refuse a DNA sample?
To reply to this message, please log in or click here to register for free.
Last Edit: 4 years 2 weeks ago by Scott - 3.

Court Rules Police Can Force Users to Unlock iPhones With Fingerprints, But Not Passcodes 4 years 1 week ago #340


  • Posts:199 Thank you received: 78
  • GTEN Trustee
  • Christian's Avatar
  • Christian
  • Trustee
  • OFFLINE
  • Karma: 30
My phone is pass code protected. If it weren't, I could make quite a fist, preventing fingerprinting, as I've done in jail at booking time. I might also add that my fingerprints are my property, and I don't think many cops can afford to buy or rent my property, so long as I know how to contract with them.
To reply to this message, please log in or click here to register for free.
The universe occurs to me as a fractal of primordial energy to be manifested into the material by intention.
The following user(s) said Thank You: Scott - 3

Court Rules Police Can Force Users to Unlock iPhones With Fingerprints, But Not Passcodes 4 years 1 week ago #341


  • Posts:45 Thank you received: 8
  • Scott - 3's Avatar
  • Scott - 3
  • Trustee Network
  • OFFLINE
  • Karma: 8
Christian wrote:
My phone is pass code protected. If it weren't, I could make quite a fist, preventing fingerprinting, as I've done in jail at booking time. I might also add that my fingerprints are my property, and I don't think many cops can afford to buy or rent my property, so long as I know how to contract with them.


Thanks for the reply, Christian.

I thought that was the case.

Does the new course (Administrative Justice: The Power of Contractual Due Process) cover dealing contractually with Police in this regard?

If not, what do you recommend for beginners with regard to this subject matter?
To reply to this message, please log in or click here to register for free.
Last Edit: 4 years 1 week ago by Scott - 3.

Court Rules Police Can Force Users to Unlock iPhones With Fingerprints, But Not Passcodes 4 years 1 week ago #342


  • Posts:45 Thank you received: 8
  • Scott - 3's Avatar
  • Scott - 3
  • Trustee Network
  • OFFLINE
  • Karma: 8
From the article in the original post above:


"Circuit Court judge in Virginia has ruled that fingerprints are not protected by the Fifth Amendment, a decision that has clear privacy implications for fingerprint-protected devices like newer iPhones and iPads.

According to Judge Steven C. Fucci, while a criminal defendant can't be compelled to hand over a passcode to police officers for the purpose of unlocking a cellular device, law enforcement officials can compel a defendant to give up a fingerprint.
"



So they are saying that withholding one's fingerprints is not covered by the 5th Amendment, but that does not address the personal property rights issue. That does not address the issue of consent or the issue of the government using force to take your personal property without due process.

So if you refuse to give them your fingerprints, or a mug shot, or a DNA sample, and they take it by force anyway, then anything discovered as a result of that unlawful seizure would be inadmissible — as long as you understand and assert your rights — correct?


If the answer is not too involved, how might one ‘contract’ with the Police in a situation where they attempt to take your fingerprints / mug shot / DNA sample against your will and without consent?
To reply to this message, please log in or click here to register for free.

Court Rules Police Can Force Users to Unlock iPhones With Fingerprints, But Not Passcodes 4 years 1 week ago #343


  • Posts:199 Thank you received: 78
  • GTEN Trustee
  • Christian's Avatar
  • Christian
  • Trustee
  • OFFLINE
  • Karma: 30
Everything is just an offer. All contract is offer and acceptance. When presented with an offer, there are 4 doors you can go through.

1. Acceptance. Equals consent.
2. Ignore the offer. No honor. Consent by acquiescence, since you have an obligation to respond if you object.
3. Argument. No honor. Gives consent. Argument is making statements. Making statements means taking a position. Taking a position means you can be deposed. Being deposed is synonymous with being dethroned. Being dethroned means loss of sovereignty. Loss of sovereignty means you're a debtor-subject. Debtor-subject means you've given consent under the citizen contract, which means the trustee (the government) of your public juristic person can do as it pleases. Consent derived from the public contract.
4. Counter offer. Conditional acceptance. Stays in honor. An example of conditional acceptance is, "I accept your offer to take my property, such as my likeness or fingerprints, subject to proof that you have the right to do so without compensation. In lieu of such proof, you may take my fingerprints for $10,000."

The keys are to 1) ask questions, and do not make statements, 2) remain in honor at all times, 3) follow no orders, and 3) treat everything as an offer and respond by either conditional acceptance or simply "I do not consent."
To reply to this message, please log in or click here to register for free.
The universe occurs to me as a fractal of primordial energy to be manifested into the material by intention.
The following user(s) said Thank You: Scott - 3

Court Rules Police Can Force Users to Unlock iPhones With Fingerprints, But Not Passcodes 4 years 1 week ago #344


  • Posts:199 Thank you received: 78
  • GTEN Trustee
  • Christian's Avatar
  • Christian
  • Trustee
  • OFFLINE
  • Karma: 30
Administrative Justice is about establishing the facts of a controversy on paper. It might keep you from going to court or paying fines, it might allow you to motion for summary judgment instead of going to trial, but it isn't about live contracting. That's a skill of a different sort. We can talk about it in the webinars though if you want. See my other post in this thread on that subject.
To reply to this message, please log in or click here to register for free.
The universe occurs to me as a fractal of primordial energy to be manifested into the material by intention.
The following user(s) said Thank You: Scott - 3
To create a new topic, please log in or click here to register for free.
Moderators: Christian, Michael
Time to create page: 0.155 seconds