In learning more about Trusts, I keep coming to the point that if one wants to interact with, say, the local liquor store clerk, one would need a proxy to do so if that clerk asks for ID for the purchase if one did not have one or wish to present it.

This seems weak and flimsy to me. Additionally, if the whole of society finally got educated and interacted in trust, who would be left to get that 6-pack from the store?

More to the point, it seems that one would have to put his burdens on another by asking someone to do something for himself he cannot do, as is the case here. And, from one perspective, isn't that a reasonable limitation in one's life that one might not wish to bear.

So, is the Trust really as powerful as I think it is? Is it not standing in a less powerful place when one has to ask another to "help" them? I don't think a Rothschild heir has to do so.

Input?

ZeroForce,

I've shed my Driver License & Social Security Card about a year ago, and I have no problem operating in places that require an Identification... It may take a little talking to the clerk, but I get on Military installations as a contractor with a "Self Made ID" and "Privately Issued License Plates". I use my ID's in the order shown below... I show my U.S. Passport unless I leave the U.S.A.

I have the following documents on me constantly:

"Self Made ID under Notary Seal" -- Issued by Me, authenticated by a Notary.
"World Service Passport" -- not issued by the U.S. Government (DC), but still issued in DC.
"U.S. Passport" -- I crossed out "Citizen" which leaves "National" 8 U.S.C.§ 1101 (a)(2) as the only option.

When you start the Trust, you are simply forming a Jurisdiction and contracting yourself into it... When you sign up for a government ID you are doing the same thing, however they aren't showing you the entire contract... therefore all of your current ID's are "void ab initio" anyway...

"Privately Issued License Plates".... Are these self-made as well? If not may I ask where you got them?

ZeroForce wrote:
My usual answer is, "I don't identify myself to anyone. Cops, judges, anyone... Why would I identify myself to you? Do you want the business or not?". It almost always works. If not, or if I actually DO need to identify myself (to TSA or to a banker to cash a check, basically), I might present a passport card. The passport is an interesting document in that it identifies both the individual (the people) and the citizen or national (the person), but it does not identify the individual AS the citizen or national. A driver's license, on the other hand, identifies the individual as acting in the capacity of the citizen-subject.

ZeroForce wrote:
Neither a Rothchild nor I has any of the problems you're asking about. I've been living this way for many years. It's simpler, not more difficult. With time and understanding you'll see. Cheers.

I would like to broach a few issues on the ID. I see this as a major starting point to differentiating free inhabitants from persons.

1. In a previous post it was mentioned that "8 USC 1101(a)(2)" was the only option? Not really sure I can agree with this. I did a little research a few years ago on the subject of obtaining passports. 8 USC 1101(a)(14): "The term “foreign state” includes outlying possessions of a foreign state, but self-governing dominions or territories under mandate or trusteeship shall be regarded as separate foreign states." I would advise looking at 22 USC 212 as well.
I digress. Not sure how many of you are familiar with the case Church of Scientology v. U.S. Dept of Justice, 612 F.2d. 417, but in the WestLaw Citation, at headnote 4, I believe, it is stated "the word "Person", in legal terminology, such as statutes, is a general term which normally includes within it's scope a variety of entities, other than human beings". This is precedent caselaw. It cites 1 USC 1, which reads the same under Ohio Revised Code 1.59(c). Both list individual. In summation, an "individual" is a person not a human being.
From my research, I believe that title 22 of the USC is where we should look. I would much suggest this Vienna Convention on Diplomatic Relations of April 18, 1961 (T.I.A.S. numbered 7502; 23 U.S.T. 3227), entered into force with respect to the United States on December 13, 1972. As a good read to see where I am coming from. Under title 22 we, as non-Vienna Convention Members...or our "foreign state", i.e. trust, we are still entitled to all everything thereunder. Thus, if our Trust sends us as a mission to the US we are entitled to all the immunities as any other officer appointed under the Vienna Convention...at least that is my opinion. Anyone care to give me their input, I would appreciate the insight.

2. Family Bible. Family names. The Family Bible is a key to this whole process, I agree with. However, I am not 100% sure on the actual "family name" I should use. My family keeps pretty good records, and about 4 generations ago my family name was changed via the US when my ancestors entered this land. I want to use my "original" family name, before it was changed by the US officials when entering this land. I just want some other opinions on this matter.

I will close with that.

-Nate

I am also looking into Foreign Agent Registration Act (FARA). Not sure if diplomatic officers would fall into this catagory...but I am leaning more to the "Yes" side of the intention.

I prefer the word "people" over "person", "individual" or "human being". "People" is both singular and plural. Persons come in very different types. Individual can mean different things. If you look deeply enough into the etymological meaning of human, you'll find it describes a fiction as well.

True. "People" is a very good word. Thanks for the insight. I get the opportunity to use this administrative process on a few minor misdemeanors, nothing but a fine, and I don't live in the jurisdiction anyhow. They are all predicated on the Driver's License I wrote "vi coactus" on. In addition, this last incident all I had was my Trust ID on me, so they could not get any ID to come up in their computers. That is until my driver, whom is not educated, gave them a Last name for me, which showed a picture of my Driver's License. Under this presumption, predicated on hearsay evidence, I was whisked off to the county jail. Fun times there always. My initial thought was to simply file a motion for summary judgment for failure to show a valid contract for the license, i.e., Identifying indicia. I already have proof of a void contract, yes...I plan to use the administrative procedure to reinforce this, but still debating on having a trustee do this or my people as the auth. rep. for the "person"??

As always, onwards and upwards!-Nate