Has anybody been able to get an EIN without a SSN, as per Weiss' handbook? I'm trying to keep a trust out of US jurisdiction.

Jack M wrote:

The cleanest way to keep a private trust out of US jurisdiction is to not get an EIN for it. In my opinion, application for an EIN gives jurisdiction. Weiss and I disagree on this point. I can't think of a good reason why your private trust would need an EIN when it can hold a public entity that has one.

This trust I'm creating will be outside US jurisdiction, and needs to be both public and private because it will be liening an already existing US public trust.

The EIN is needed because the trustee of the public trust being liened needs to be able to identify the trust that the res will be transferred to.

I cannot get the IRS to issue an EIN for the trust unless the trustee has a SSN, and I don't want the new trust falling back into US jurisdiction.

Jack, your post is dual minded. Either a trust is private or it is public. It can't be both. And it will not be outside US jurisdiction, at least not completely, if it makes minimum contacts in the federal forum, which it will as you describe. It will become public as soon as it does. However, a holding trust can be formed privately and avail itself to only limited public jurisdiction as it desires, which is what you will want to do for the circumstances you describe. Then that holding trust contracts with a private master trust to protect it. These techniques are the focus of the Private Trust Education and Trust Web Structures courses if you want to learn how to implement them properly. Right now there is a new member special that gives you Trust Web Structures free if you register for Private Trust Education. Here's the link: GTEN.org/webinars

Thank you Christian. As I am new to GTEN (whole enchilada) and I just became a secure party creditor a couple months ago (Druanna method), this has been my main question. Get an EIN or not? Good or bad thing? Public or private? Thanks again for providing a clear understanding of why you do not want an EIN.
Jerry Atkinson

Hi Jerry. You bet. Welcome! Glad to see you on the forum.

N/A

The IRS website will issue an EIN for your cat if you want one. Instantly.

Yes, you can get an EIN without an SSN. You simply write in foreign under the SSN box and then write foreign owned disregarded entity for example in the entity type box. Think of filing out forms for the U.S. as if you are foreign to it like another country or jurisdiction (unless after reading 26 USC you find it applies to you).

You will need to fax the SS-4 to the IRS. It has taken 40-60 days during covid lockdown for them to send out EINs, but I did receive mine for a business.

Thanks