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TOPIC: EIN

EIN 2 years 10 months ago #592


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Has anybody been able to get an EIN without a SSN, as per Weiss' handbook? I'm trying to keep a trust out of US jurisdiction.
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EIN 2 years 10 months ago #595


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Jack M wrote:
Has anybody been able to get an EIN without a SSN, as per Weiss' handbook? I'm trying to keep a trust out of US jurisdiction.


The cleanest way to keep a private trust out of US jurisdiction is to not get an EIN for it. In my opinion, application for an EIN gives jurisdiction. Weiss and I disagree on this point. I can't think of a good reason why your private trust would need an EIN when it can hold a public entity that has one.
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EIN 2 years 10 months ago #597


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This trust I'm creating will be outside US jurisdiction, and needs to be both public and private because it will be liening an already existing US public trust.

The EIN is needed because the trustee of the public trust being liened needs to be able to identify the trust that the res will be transferred to.

I cannot get the IRS to issue an EIN for the trust unless the trustee has a SSN, and I don't want the new trust falling back into US jurisdiction.
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Last Edit: 2 years 9 months ago by Jack M. Reason: Clarity

EIN 2 years 9 months ago #599


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Jack, your post is dual minded. Either a trust is private or it is public. It can't be both. And it will not be outside US jurisdiction, at least not completely, if it makes minimum contacts in the federal forum, which it will as you describe. It will become public as soon as it does. However, a holding trust can be formed privately and avail itself to only limited public jurisdiction as it desires, which is what you will want to do for the circumstances you describe. Then that holding trust contracts with a private master trust to protect it. These techniques are the focus of the Private Trust Education and Trust Web Structures courses if you want to learn how to implement them properly. Right now there is a new member special that gives you Trust Web Structures free if you register for Private Trust Education. Here's the link: GTEN.org/webinars
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Last Edit: 2 years 9 months ago by Christian.
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EIN 2 years 3 months ago #658

Thank you Christian. As I am new to GTEN (whole enchilada) and I just became a secure party creditor a couple months ago (Druanna method), this has been my main question. Get an EIN or not? Good or bad thing? Public or private? Thanks again for providing a clear understanding of why you do not want an EIN.
Jerry Atkinson
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EIN 2 years 3 months ago #659


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Hi Jerry. You bet. Welcome! Glad to see you on the forum.
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EIN 1 year 4 weeks ago #854

Hi Jack - I have been able to acquire EIN's for private trusts without entering an SSN or other tax ID.

Sometimes the IRS issues it, sometimes they write back wanting more information.

The reason I opted for one of the private trusts in my structure to have an EIN is because this trust is the owner of an LLC and for banking purposes the owner of the LLC must be present to open an account and provide an SSN or other tax ID.

Banks ask for the SSN since the Patriot Act was enacted. The owner being a trust has its own EIN that can be provided to the bank, along with the LLC's EIN. And the trustee of the private trust is the one controlling it all. This individual, the trustee will have to provide an SSN if a U.S. individual or U.S. Visa, WB-BEN and some other documentation, or Greencard, if a foreign individual. The banks say they want the U.S. individual SSN or other documentation from foreign individuals for their own internal identification purposes and not for any kind of outside reporting to any entities.

So the trust having the EIN allows for the trustee giving a social to not be associated with the trust as an owner but merely giving it for bank ID purposes.

This trust that has the EIN, is owned by a private express trust that does not have an EIN, it is untouched by the federal jurisdiction. Whereas the one with the EIN has acquired the EIN for banking purposes or for identification of beneficial owner or other purpose.

The great thing about trust web structures is you have room to experiment - you keep a certain trust or trusts private, some others may cross over into the public in very limited and specific ways, and then you have your public entities that are of and in the U.S. and can do all kinds of lawful business and transactions.

But long story short, yes it is possible and has been done. Obtaining EIN's without an SSN or other tax ID that is..
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Last Edit: 1 year 3 weeks ago by All Rights Reserved.

EIN 1 year 5 days ago #865


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The IRS website will issue an EIN for your cat if you want one. Instantly.
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EIN 1 year 5 days ago #866

That is my experience too Christian lol though not for any cats. I find the IRS will issue an EIN swiftly so long as the applicant of the SS-4 provides a tax ID# on the application.

But the IRS does not instantly nor through their website give an EIN# for an SS4 application that has not provided a tax ID#.

To receive an EIN for a "clean-slate" entity, as in an entity that has no federal Tax ID# or State Tax ID# to begin with, is quite rare as far as I've seen from speaking to people in these types of communities over the years. No community is like GTEN,...I mean generally, commercial redemption communities, sovereignty communities etc. I've not seen anyone discuss applying for and receiving new EIN's without providing a tax ID# on the app.

But I haven't spoke to all in all groups - perhaps it's not as rare as I presume.
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Last Edit: 1 year 5 days ago by All Rights Reserved.
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